I use PCLOS; it uses Synaptic and it dead easy to pull apps from the repositories. IN the very rare cases I need to install from an RPM I simply click on it and a full wizard interface launches to install it. Nothing could be simpler.

There is an eee project in PCLOS. You might want to look into that.

It may be that your troubles are not specifically 'Linux' problems. I have read other reviews that stated that Xandros has 'crippled' this version on the EEE for whatever reason. Yes, adding a repository for the first time was a trial in typing.
But most distros have the proper apps in their distro's repos anyway, and it is a matter of typing a name of an app or a category or keyword to find what you are looking for...and then a few keystrokes to install. At least that is my experience with my Linux only lappies (and four distros) in the past two and 1/2 years. Currently Kubuntu, but hold PCLinuxOS and DreamLinux in high regard.

Umm, learn about linux. You've obviously spent the time learning dos, win, and osx. You are crapping out now? Each different OS you talked about uses a different form of installation. Why are you crying?

Since you were not specific of the program you wanted to install in this article, then i'll assume that you just installed a dependency for a program you didn't have installed for it to go to. The truth is don't use synaptic, and you won't get bit. Synaptic takes a long time to load, and can be quite confusing to many. Synaptic is a very highly advanced and also volatile add/remove programs program similar to windows add/remove program except way better.

I personally don't recommend using synaptic. Use command line, where commands have been standardized across all linux distributions. Idk why you're having trouble with it "cd", "dir", and "ls" are the only ones i need to really remember. I'm not even going to tell you what those commands are...since you've used dos before, you just have to do your research to see what "ls" is. The only time commands are different across different linux distributions is when a certain distribution has certain packaging for it's programs like deb's and rpm's, and on top of that a specific way to install them.

Lucky for you, you have xandros, which uses deb's since xandros is a fork of debian. That means if you want to install programs better, easier, and faster than synaptic. you do this...
Go to console.
type "su", put in root password next.
type "apt-get install whatevernameofprogramyouwanted".
Downloading and installation will occur.
Once done, close out console.
If installing said program doesn't work...they don't have a good release of it in the repositories, you didn't do something right (betting that's what happened), or xandros just sucks (which may be true).

It's not that installing applications in linux is hard. It's just that you've never done it before, or have even done it right. The fact that you weren't specific about what you installed or what else exactly happened after you tried to install whatever. Says you fubarred something, you're bashful about it, and that you'd rather write an article about your "nix" misconceptions and anger.

The truth is, you can download apps for linux by browsing the web or having them on some storage device and install them on linux just like a windows app. The kicker is that you have to put in your root password to install it. And if xandros is a nice "nix" then they included a graphical front end for apt-get....something like gdebi for installing deb files outside of repositories...ie deb files you grabbed yourself from somewhere.

The last thing. Xandros on the eeepc is locked down in easy mode. You have to edit a small config file which lets you use advanced mode. Which is just an ordinary kde destop which is a lot more usable, will probably suit your needs, and maybe work better with installing programs. Maybe when locked down in easy mode xandros doesn't like to facilitate the installation of programs unless in advanced mode when it will like installing progs?

Anyway, learn more, don't bitch, google is your friend (hint: search up linux problems specific to your distro and problem for solution). It's like people don't know how to use google good enough but they know how to do something harder like running a blog?

"learn more, don't bitch, google is your friend"

You better listen to what the complaints are. If this guy has problems coming from a dos background etc, regular mom and dad will even have bigger problems.

Imagine aunt Bertha using linux for the first time, wants to install a program but has to learn to add repositories and whatnot. Do you think she'll take the one hour time needed to learn what it's all about, the commands she'll need to know, just to install a program?

Apt-get and the likes are good solutions. But not for attracting the windows market.

In fairness to your second point about installers, Debian, Redhat and all their children (of which Ubuntu is one) have .deb and .rpm files which aim to be as standard as possible.

They're double-click to open, click install, enter your password, done. Easier than Windows.

The problem about this is it forces users onto third-party sites. getdeb.net is a trustworthy one but if Linux keeps gaining momentum, crappy adware sites are going to start appearing offering all sorts of infected crap. Install from a semi-decent repo and you'll never run anything bad with admin permissions.

Repos mean you will get updates (eventually) and that's one reason there are so many infected Windows computers.

So what your asking for does exist but I don't think it's really the way forward. Developers need to compile for more outputs and repo maintainers need to help them.

Thanks for the comments. I greatly appreciate the feedback.

I spent an hour with a friend who's a Linux guru. He's been a developer and lives and breathes Linux in his computing life. It's the only OS he uses (and the rest of his family for that matter).

What I've learned from that hour and from the exchanges from readers and commenters here today is that

1 - Xandros on the Eee PC is not especially well supported by developers

2 - There's no one, simple way to do things

3 - If someone like me, with many years of computing experience (in support, as a trainer, as a manager) can't do something as simple as install one application (JSword - a Bible application) and get it to work then it's too damn hard. I have spent about 10 hours on this. I give up!

4 - I know about Google (used it the day it launched and every day since I think!). All I see is more freustrated users.

I think the real issue is that Linux is fractured. Each different distro runs things its own way and the chance of being able to install something on one distro and then repeating it on another seems slim.

Maybe the fact that this little project has robbed me of so much time has made me a little grumpy.

BTW - just as an experiment I installed OS X on the Eee PC. The hardware is inadequate (mainly because the screen res is too low). The OS was ready to use in about 15 minutes.

I'm tempted (very tempted) to install XP on the Eee PC but can't bring myself to do it so I'll persevere.

Oh yes...one more thing...

Jsword requires java...which may not be in the xandros on the EEE.

If you can install wine...then use one of the best bible programs, e-Sword. yes it is a windows app, but it will run on linux. Goto Franks Corner > Home/Education (left pane) and instructions for e-sword are there. (even tho the instructions are for an older version of e-sword, they are true for the latest version, also)
God Bless revdjenk

you seem to have picked a bad piece of software that doesn't actually include any immediate information for installing. There are no quick instructions in their installation file - which means they are bad bad developers (in my opinion).

Anyway, if you actually care to go to jsword's website and download their code directly, untar it (tar -xvzf jsword-1.0.7-bin.tar.gz), make the run file executable (chmod +x BibleDesktop.sh) and run it (./BibleDesktop.sh) you will see that it actually runs perfectly fine on an eeepc (as it does on mine)
All done in less than 5 minutes.

The issue here is not with Xandros or Linux, but with your inability to read documentation and the programmers of jsword not making it plainly obvious how to install their software. At the end of the day Linux is rich and diverse, but the Xandros/eeepc engineers cannot cater for all, all of the time.
Try reading rather than blogging...

Thanks for the constructive comment Tom.

Actually, i did read the release notes and managed to get the app to run but it wouldn't install any books. I downloaded it from the site, followed the instructions and when i was stuck I hit the web and called some friends.

However, I've been doing yet more Googling and found that many folks have had success with GnomeSword on the Eee PC. I've managed to successfully install that so I'm now happy and have the main piece of software I want.

Incidentally, the instructions I found helpful and that worked for me came from this page.

http://forum.eeeuser.com/viewtopic.php?pid=18936

Anthony

Anthony- I have not used the Eee nor the specific app you were concerned with but I have used Xandros with mixed results. I now use PCLinuxOS and have found it will run on every machine I have- granted you have the app installed and might not want to jeopardize that, but if you are so inclined, check out PCLinuxOS.

You dont need any console to install things on Linux. If you do, that means you dont have the correct distribution. I dont know how Xandros is..It doesnt seem very good from your comment. Just install ubuntu/mandriva or some more friendly distro. Actually the EEE PC is a first of the kind...a bit early to rush and buy it. I am waiting that the market matures.

Using a title that includes "Linux blows" and making a general reference to all of Linux based on one distro that isn't even one of the higher respected distros in the community because of their proprietary behavior sounds very much "troll-ish" on your part.

For someone who makes such a fuss over having access to a bible application you spend a lot of time being abusive toward a community that you apparently haven't investigated very well. Very demonstrative of a "Christian" nature.

Shall I judge all Christians based on your behavior as you have judged all of Linux by one distro?

There are several Linux distributions that require little to no command line interaction at all. Such as Linux Mint, PCLinuxOS, and a couple others.

Before you begin a bashing tirade, perhaps you would be better advised to do some home work first, instead of reporting with a knee-jerk emotional response from using a Proprietary" which defies the nature and interests of Linux to begin with) distribution.

you are most welcome to email me if you care to civilly discuss what Linux can accomplish given use of the appropriate distro.

Big Bear

Talk about giving up... Dude, get a grip and try another flavor of Linux.

Xandros on EEE PC is crippled.

If you aren't a geek or patient to learn Linux, try PCLinux, Ubuntu, Fedora or SuSE 10.

To come out and say Linux blows when you haven't hardly used is just plain wrong.

"Maybe when locked down in easy mode xandros doesn't like to facilitate the installation of programs unless in advanced mode when it will like installing progs?"

No - it doesn't make any difference which mode you are in. Ctrl-Alt-T - a console is a console.

Shamil is right - Forget Synaptic; use apt-get.

My EeePC does everything I need very well right out of the box. Dissing Linux is going to get you flamed by every Linux geek out there, but for the rest of us - we just want to get stuff done without hassle - no command line, no configuring crap - just do it! Despite what the Linux geek evangelists will tell you, the Xandros distro is still one of the easiest to use for us mortals; everything just works.

What you were trying to do is install 3rd party unsupported software which is like installing bugware from a Windows shareware site.. and ya I've spent hours trying to clean my system after those fiasco's also.

I think Xandros supports something called Bibletime if that is what you're into.

the point is that you don't to install extra software. now _you_ might want to, but the whole idea of this 'pc' is it is ready the use and complete.

want to do the stuff you're talking about? ditch the default linux install all together and install something else (which can also be eee optimized).

Well, he found out xandros eee sucks. Try a different eee distro, there's a couple of different ones out there that you may pleasantly surprise yourself with or not. Idk, i never tried any of them. A good spot to start thought might be the ubuntu eee release.

You want to make an easy transition from Windows to Linux then follow these easy steps:

1: Burn a CD of Xubuntu from Xubuntu.com
2: Install it on your eee PC
3: Be happy with a fast, well supported Linux.

And it is mom and dad proof. My mother uses Kubuntu (same underlaying Linux, different interface which is too complex for the eee PC) and she has no problems whatsoever. She is even trying to convince my brother and sister to move to Linux. And no, my mother isn't a geek. Until 2 years ago she hadn't used a computer, and until a week ago she hadn't used Linux. She now uses it on her own.

I agree. Linux sucks because it doesn't work exactly like DOS and Windows.

Gawd I'm sick of distro evangelists.. use my distro because 'fill-in-the-blank' sucks. Get a clue Shamil.

SO tell me what earth shattering thing can you not do with the default supported distro on the EeePC? hmm.. download piles of crapware from Linux geek sites that let you monitor the load on your CPU?

Personally I'm blown away by the cost and features ratio of the ePC - not to mention the lightweight form factor. I can hold the thing in one hand while I podcast, surf, send mail, run office, skype, video.. etc.. I've tried Ubuntu and like big deal - it's about on par with all the others; and it is not optimized for the ePc - which the Xandros is.

You are being unfair. Xandros is not representative of Linux. It tries to emulate Windows and the version of Xandros that comes with the EEEPC is dumbed down at that.

You can change the desktop quite easily to a Full Xandros Desktop with KDE and Synaptic launches from the menu. The dumbed down version is to keep it simple and is not meant to be added to in the way the normal version is. I own a EEEPC, so I have installed the full desktop which took about 30 seconds. I have also installed Ubuntu which is more powerful and does not go out of its way to look like Windows.

I use Gnomesword in Ubuntu and Bibletime if that is your preference. You can also use a web based Bible like Biblegateway.

As a EEEPC user and an Ubuntu user I take exception to your criticism because Xandros is a poor example of Linux and comparing a stripped down version to a full OS is unfair in th eextreme. ASUS chose Xandros because it is more like Windows and they knew that this is the predominant market.

Linux does not blow, except to blow the competition out of the water. It leaves the MAC behind in terms of security, configurability and the number of available applications. It does all of this without costing the user a dime. Free open source software is the future.

Thanks again for the comments

Bigbear - did you read the whole story/post? Where was I abusive to the "community". Did I not lay out my problem? Did I not suggest what should be fixed?

Using apt-get is good advice but it sort of proves my pint doesn't it? Sourcing an application via the command line is not what computing in the 21st century is about.

.deb files - good advice again.

Distros - in a way the different Linux distros represent the best and worst of Linux. It seems that many people suggest that if you don't like one distro that you should try another. Fair enough. The problem is that each is different and that's confusing.

Perhaps, and this is not a bad thing or a criticism, Linux s not destined to ever go mainstream. Perhaps its future is to remain niche and satisfy the "geek" (I mean that in an inoffensive way) need for something you can tinker with.

Computing has moved on and the majority of consumers who walk into an electrical retailer buy a computer like they buy other home appliances. Their key buying decisions are around price, "big number" specs (disk space, RAM, CPU clock) and ease of use.

My headline - yeah, I was seeking to provoke some comment with the headline I'm glad I did as the comments have been, in the main, very helpful and have helped me learn more. Even better, they've helped me remain Windows free!

@Blasto
No i'm not being a distro evangelist. Just because i mentioned ubuntu eee as an alternative to xandros eee doesn't mean i was saying use ubuntu exclusively. I did say there are other eee distros out there. I just don't know of many eee distro alternatives is all and why i mentioned ubuntu eee because i know of that one.

And if the use of apt-get set anyone off. If you use an rpm based distro you can always do.
"su"
"yum install whateverprogramyouwanted"
It's like the equivalent of apt-get for redhat.

I'm out of here, like the author said, he learned a lot and got some interesting discussion.

Just thinking a little further I suspect that things would be easier if:

1 - ALL developers released their apps in ready to install packages.

2 - The documentation/instructions on developer websites was written by folks that didn't assume everyone understood how to open a terminal, enter a "chmod" command with all the right options, and then find where the app actually installed.

Again thanks for all the constructive comments. I've learned plenty from this open exchange of views and ideas.

@Blasto
No i'm not being a distro evangelist. Just because i mentioned ubuntu eee as an alternative to xandros eee doesn't mean i was saying use ubuntu exclusively. I did say there are other eee distros out there. I just don't know of many eee distro alternatives is all and why i mentioned ubuntu eee because i know of that one.

And if the use of apt-get set anyone off. If you use an rpm based distro you can always do.
"su"
"yum install whateverprogramyouwanted"
It's like the equivalent of apt-get for redhat.

I'm out of here, like the author said, he learned a lot and got some interesting discussion.

I am not sure if close systems can actually be a representatives of Linux. I tried few of them and the results have been total disappointment.

And later when it was announced Xandros jumped in bed with Microsoft - so sad

June 2007 it was announced that
"Xandros Linux signs up for Microsoft patent protection"

Now I read someone is knocking Linux by
comparing the inabilities of Closed Platforms.

Nothing has ever been easy with closed market software. You can not legally make it work without large sums of cash to pay them off to keep them off your backs.

GNU/Linux gives the user the ability to make work what doesn't. All over the world the GNU/Linux platform works together to make these open source platforms work better and better.

The Linux user base has grown over 30 million users as of today. There must be a reason for this I would assume.

All I got to add to this is GNU/Linux is Microsoft's worse nightmare.

Sincerely backing the Free Software Foundation. Paul

I see where you are coming from and I want to tell you that the reason that lots of applications are used in the command line is because not everybody has or wants a gui.

Synaptic is very easy to use and in other distros it is very easy to launch; however, the concept of installing software the Linux way can be confusing. If somebody walked you through it and explained things the first time you used it, you would better understand the benefits of package managers.

Xandros doesn't let you experience the broad scope of applications and features that makes Linux such a good candidate for the Eee pc. I found this blog googleing for a replacement to Xandros because I am not happy with it either.

@Shamil
This is exactly what Anthony complained about. apt-get, yum, ect is just not standardize. To the mummies and daddies out there this is just out of league for them, and we all know that mainstream computer buyers are growing at an exponential rate and most of them are well, mummies and daddies.

@Louis
Also one of the reason where someone must mentor another just to install basic programs on linux. If they standardize across distros, people who picked up say, ubuntu will have the knowhow on how to work with xandros or redhat so to say.

I'm not going to rail on Anthony for his problems with the EeePC. I think that Asus could have done a better job with it, but he needs to remember that it's a first-revision release and the subsequent models will probably be better.

What I think he fails to understand is that the EeePC as it stands is really an appliance just like my router. Sure, I can hack in more software if I want to, but it's designed to be complete and have the software it expects you to use. If Anthony needs more than that, he should consider replacing the OS with something more appropriate for him. WinXP sounds like it's exactly what he wants. For most of the non-hobbyist crowd that buys an EeePC, though, they will never need to install or configure anything. That's pretty "Mom friendly."

I also read a blog about the EeePC which he wrote on another site. He seems frustrated because Xandros doesn't follow the same principles for installing software that his other OSes do. Mac uses self-contained disk images with few shared libraries outside of the base OS, Due to the restrictions on EeePC disk space, this is not a realistic method for Asus to follow. Xandros also attempt to avoid the "DLL hell" of Windows by keeping people using approved software from approved sources that use similar shared libraries while automating the update mechanism. Anthony is better off in every case trying to install software only from the repositories supplies by Asus or Xandros. He can live on the edge by using other people's repositories designed for Xandros.

Under no circumstances should he follow his current preferred method, Googling and installing a random .deb which may or may not be compatible.

You don't try to use your toaster like an oven (unless it's a toaster oven...). Neither should you try to make the EeePC into something it's not designed to be, unless you are willing to put a lot of work into it and suffer frustration.

Regards,

Daeng

Anthony I agree completely with Big Bear re your title here.

It's fair enough to rant about the problem you had.

But insulting the entire Linux community and particularly all the developers only shows your lack of knowledge about the context of your problem, which is after all only with *one* particular platform, Linux distribution and software package. Linux is not a monolithic entity.

Nice article, however, I agree with most users, before complaining => know what you're talking about. Personnaly I find the eee pc much better with linux than with windows XPee. Once you know how to use linux, it's much easier than windows (even if you're not a c++ kungfu coder or an it geek)

I fully empathize with your problems, but please ignore users like Big Bear, Shamil, and the like. Linux is a terrible operating system. It's basically a multi-tasking version of DOS, though some people use it with a GUI on top. That is OK for some things like running a server, where you really only need to push data around. However, for instances where you need a real operating system to do everything from A to Z and still make it usable? Well, Linux falls short in this category, big time.

Couple that with problem number two. A user base largely consisting of egotistical zealots and fist pumping radicals, most of whom did not fit in well with regular society anyway (be it hygiene or attitude). Don't let them talk down to you, they probably know less in comparison because they are still stuck in the past. Don't always believe they are telling the truth. Many will lie to boost their own ego. Over 30 years of dealing with people like them, in professional and casual settings alike, I promise you that many walk a path of hatred, resentment, and ignorance.

Geez I'd packed in this thread, but checked back and saw the most ignorant post yet!!

Yonah - you are totally out of touch with reality. You obviously have never used a Linux OS or Linux based server. If you are going to make ridiculous statements at least have some facts or experience behind them.

Also, after reflecting on this whole thread, I've come to the conclusion that title says it all - about the author! For some one who is supposedly part of the moral majority; slandering an entire segment of the tech society based on ignorance is waaaay out of line. I'd suggest you change the title of the blog; otherwise it is pretty clear who blows around here!

It's curious that some people interpret criticism of an operating system as criticism of the people that use it.

I wonder what 'cyberpsych' Les would make of it? (What's happened to the podcasts, by the way?)

Stephen - I agree that criticism of how something works is being interpreted as personal criticism. I'm fairly certain that the developer teams at Apple, Microsoft, Oracle, Symbian and and all the other dev shops around the world don't take it personally when someone criticises their software. By the way, I thought I was being constructive. I did try to offer some solutions but I suspect that some readers lacked the patience to read the entire post and stopped at the headline.

With the podcasts - Les and I have been too busy but now that I've got the Skype thing sorted we might try to chat that way and start over.

@Yonah - not sure your argument is rational but to each their own. I'm certainly not going to censor anyone's opinion.

@Blasto - I'm not part of any majority. I was simply making a point. As I said in today's post, perhaps my headline was a little sensationalist but it stimulated a debate and I learned plenty.

@everyone who took a pot shot at me - rather than criticising me personally why not criticise my reasoning. I wasn't playing the man in my post - I was taking a shot at the software, not the developers. I challenge you guys to read the entire post and tell me what was actually wrong with my facts. My main criticism is that installing apps with Linux is a bitch. Did anyone actually read that far? I also suggest ways to fix that problem.

Ubuntu christian edition

check it out..

The manufacturer built the OS to their own specs .... it's not the fault of Linux.

Next time you get a product, do some research first.

Standardization is a huge topic of debate. The main question being:
How do you standardize something that is open and free?

Humble opinion or not, taking a stab at the OS itself is useless. Making the usual "I've used Window$.... "I've used Mac...." comments is ... well ... BORING!

Your post teaches nothing to no one; other than you are quick to judge and don't want to learn as you go. Snapping your fingers and shouting "my way" ain't gonna work. Good luck with your studies.

"My main criticism is that installing apps with Linux is a bitch."

You are still wrong here. It's as easy as typing a single line, or opening the software installer [of your choice] ... try that with the other OS's you mentioned. You are using the EeePC version of Linux, that runs on that hardware specifically. You can choose to use it, or change it as you see fit. How much more freedom could you want?

"Did anyone actually read that far? I also suggest ways to fix that problem."

Yup, Linux people do read short, 7 paragraph posts. Why are you so pissed? Instead of learning more about the system, you've chosen to post about how the system should be changed. You are free to change the system on your own, and then write about it. The only reason I'm replying to your post is because of the title of the post. You knew nothing about Linux, didn't want to learn anything about the system you bought, and then you write this garbage? I can't believe you've written about tech before, being this irrational and irresponsible.

Thanks for stopping by Mr Surly. Obviously we disagree. I've learned plenty about the OS (see http://pocketmojo.net/index.php/eeepcmojo/2008/06/22/title_11 for a summary of much of it). I suspect that there is a gulf in the expectations of experienced Linux users and me.

I figure that in the 21st century we should have moved past needed to learn command line computing. I also think that stuff like RPM, DEB and other package types could be standardised.

BTW - I'm not pissed off. I'm happy to be educated when I'm wrong. Also, I leveled some criticism at a piece of software - not at a specific person or group of people. I drive a Ford and there are things about my car that I'm critical of. Ford's designers don't take it personally. Yet, you, and some others, have decided to play the man instead of the issue.

In any case, thank you for your wishes regarding my studies and I wish you and all the other readers and commenters a pleasant day.

i used pcm, peeked and poked the c64, unixed the old wax stations, basiced the pdp 11, was growing through dos and every version of windows.
i bought recentky an eee pc and must say xandros for this machine is wel done. easy mode for the ever day user, full desktop for the rest. and yes i installed scricbus, gimp, kino, open project and others 1,2,3 .. - with no problems - as easy as under windows by the way.
but i noticed one thing also: complaining geeks like the author here behaving like spoiled babies and over the heck thrown so called linux gurus making their own world as command line complicated as ever imaginable.
a last word to the author - your so called linux expert obviously is not even worth the coffee spent to hold him by good humour. the guy is simply nuts.
you tend to smsah doors that are open under linux for quite a while now.

just forgot to mention one point ..
try to install old windows programs under vista and you will land in hell ....

Hi Anthony -

Great article. I stumbled upon it from Lifehacker. It was an interesting read, especially since I was about to recommend the eeePC to a friend of mine who is a pastor and looking for a small inexpensive laptop to carry around (he uses a Palm with an external keyboard for now).

I've had my 8G since it first came out last year. I love the little unit.

I see you are thinking of putting XP on your 4G. Before you do so let me share with you my own experience with getting XP on the eeePC.

I was too lazy to install XP from scratch, therefore I looked for slipstreamed XP releases from bit torrent. I tried 3 different versions (all of which have low memory footprint at 100-150Mb)... one did not allow me any network access, another was too bloated (the OS took up 2Gb) and finally the third version worked fine but the WiFi download speed was for some reason 1/3 the speed of same using Xandros.

Since I am using the laptop mainly for surfing and taking notes I went back to the default OS.

I spent a couple of weeks researching and playing with the various releases. Contact me if you want more information.

u are no the only one .i agree
i found this sit whil looking to put mac on my eee pc